Planning for 2026 | Why People and Money Must Be Aligned

Joey (00:01.102)
Hello everyone and thank you for joining us. Today the PBO team is going to be discussing year-end planning as well as a look forward to 2026 for integrating the alignment of people and money in business. When human capital and finances are aligned, it yields better business results. So to find out more about what those results are, we’re joined by PBO’s leadership team.

Fran San Diego, Jennifer Rebis, and Nicole Devine. So let’s jump in. Fran, so you’re in close contact with a lot of business owners on a daily basis. What is your headline for 2025 so far? And what do think the year’s been like for small and mid-sized companies?

Francesca San Diego (00:49.094)
Thanks for joining, Joey. And I’m really excited that we’re back on our podcast crew. This is so fun for us to talk about, you know, what’s happening in the business world. I think the headline for 2025 is, shoo, it’s almost over. It’s been a very odd year. We’ve seen a lot going on in the marketplace, mostly because there’s been a lot of uncertainty. The cost of capital is higher.

The big, beautiful bill didn’t get passed until July. So there were a lot of tax questions and planning issues that people really postponed until they understood what that bill looked like. And then on the human capital side, this uncertainty really does cause some anxiety in people. so…

On the human capital side, as Nicole so famously says, the human condition is completely unpredictable. It has been that this year, along with everything else.

Joey (01:53.358)
Jennifer, so on the finance side, what kind of pressures do you see from businesses and you know as far as finances go this past year?

Jennifer Rebis (02:04.95)
Would say kind of echoing what Francesca said, I think the human capital side and workforce planning is a big focus. That’s what we’re focused on at PBO advisory right now. We are wrapping up our budget for 2026 and now we’re doing a little more workforce planning to make sure that we have the right employees in all the right departments in order to generate revenue. So that’s been the focus this month.

…and we’ll continue into December.

Joey (02:38.25)
Awesome. And Nicole, how do you determine which employees are the right employees for each area?

Nicole Devine (02:46.878)
Each area, well, that is a loaded question, I’ll try to that up in two sentences if I can. So I think it looks different for every organization. Probably a few years worth of content there. So I think it’s fair to say that we start to look at job design, job role. We look at the organization first. So often what we’ll see

Joey (02:49.88)
Yeah, it is.

Ha ha ha!

Joey (02:56.374)
I’ve more than nervous lately.

When we look at year-end planning is leadership teams always start, especially in small to mid-sized markets, they start with talking about the people and who they have in the seats. And we really work with our clients and PBO has really worked hard to separate those two categories and talk about the business model, the growth, the strategy, and what are the roles and the skills that we need in order to achieve business outcomes.

Anytime I begin to hear our clients or our team start to talk about names, it’s like, no, we’re not there yet. That’s a phase two. So the only way to know if you have the right people in the right seats is to be resolute in what the right seats look like first and the right skills that need to be in those seats and attached to business outcomes. So Jennifer and I talk a lot about business outcome and a return on investment from human capital and how do we attach those two things so that we are actually yielding what we need to and we understand how to invest in those resources appropriately, right? Where they gapped, do we the right programs in place, et cetera. So that’s my very cliff notes version of how I would look at.

And what’s really cool about that is that, you know, as we’re all talking in planning, you know, whether it’s PBO or our clients, you know, sometimes we’re doing a pivot in our business model and we’re saying, okay, well, the market has changed. so we’ve got to pivot strategically to meet the demands of the market. And so maybe our product or service looks a little differently. And so that is where, you know, this, what Nicole is saying is what are the skill sets and the needs and what is the cost of those to be able to meet that business model or meet that moment in the marketplace?

Joey (05:09.11)
Yeah, and just to add on to that, think it’s really important that, you know.

Being an intelligent person and being a good employee is sometimes admitting what you don’t know is like really important, you know, and being able to have honest conversations with your manager. And if the manager can facilitate that, having an honest conversation about really where that employee strengths are and where, you know, they could use improvement, I think will really help in determining, you know, who the right people are for each task.

So Fran, you have said that aligning the strategy between people and finance is a company’s real competitive advantage. So what does that usually look like for PBO’s clients?

You know, what’s really amazing for our team is that we do work together and we understand that our clients to largest resources are their people and their money. And they all have to be rowing in the same boat towards the same goals. so, you know, oftentimes we’ll have our HR teams in with a client who has this vision of, well, I need this person doing this, this, this, and this, but, or I need to have five new hires.

But what are the financial impacts, the cash flow impacts, the runway for return on investment for those hires? So that’s when Nicole can phone a friend and say, hey, Jennifer, I need some of our finance team folks to model this and take a look at this and see if it makes sense or what is the appropriate plan that is a sustainable plan for a company as they’re growing or you know, you know, tough decisions or pivoting their business model. We have to be talking hand in hand because our skills, our gifts as our, you know, our human capital folks and our financial is the, are the resources we have to work.

Joey (07:07.918)
Yeah, know, sometimes coming from an HR perspective or a finance perspective, sometimes you have tunnel vision and you’re just seeing that one side of things, but it really is important to get a full picture of both sides and how they work together. So Jennifer, when you and Nicole meet with clients, how does the integration between finance and people usually come up and what is that discussion usually like with the client?

So where I would come in is modeling these workforce planning decisions. I would go to Nicole and ask if her team can do a comp analysis, a benchmarking study to see are we paying the right wages for these employees? Are we able to hire competitively? So that is a great resource to have, to have her team start on that. And then we would have one of our finance folks model that out, see what is the overhead for that.

What is the cost of benefits? Like Fran mentioned, the runway, depending on your business. So for PBO, we have to look how long does it take to get a new employee fully utilized? So there’s a cost to that. So that’s where Nicole and I would work hand in hand. She would look at the market conditions, determine what are the wages looking like, and then the finance team would run with that and then we would have back and forth discussions to finish that modeling.

Joey (08:41.006)
For the comp analysis, that’s a separate service, right, that you all provide. And then how long does that usually take? Like for a mid-size company, like what’s the timeframe around that usually?

It depends on the client really. Yeah, it depends on the client. So the workforce planning itself really is a constant conversation. So we start out with what’s the strategy. What are we projecting for growth, revenue? Are we going into new markets? All of that. We start with that conversation, big picture. And then Jennifer and I kind of looked through the modeling from a workforce planning. So she mentioned one facet of what we look at for workforce planning, which is, do we even have

Joey (08:57.932)
Yeah.

Joey (09:04.813)
Mm-hmm.

The right comp model in place, right? To be able to structure, to attract and even retain our high potential. So that’s one piece of the workforce planning. We also look at, we have the right skills and where are we gapped in terms of our current team? So even if it’s with the leadership team, which is a lot of what we’ll look at, Is the, do we have the right structure in place in order for that to make sense? And those, so.

The planning itself should align around budget season. It should align around strategic planning season, which typically is end of Q3, Q4, but really touch points of inflection points throughout the year. Jennifer and I are constantly in contact about where we plan and how are we bearing to that plan, right? So to Fran’s point earlier, I would say the largest skill you needed in 2025 was to be adaptable.

And most people think it would be a technical skill, but if you weren’t, it was like you either adapt or die in this market, right? So sometimes what you think the skill set is not what it is. And that’s where human capital and financial modeling comes together to talk through. Like, it’s not about a technical skill all of the time. Sometimes the skill is we need a malleable team that we can bolt together a bunch of different skill sets.

Joey (10:25.418)
I agree.

…and get that product delivered in some form or fashion. So it is not a small project, it’s an ongoing, but the main project, would say, usually takes us about two months to get through. I think that’s fair, right, Jennifer? When we get through budget season and Jennifer does like a first pass at it and then brings in. what our team has done beautifully, in my opinion, is we look at the…

Yeah.

The undeliverable and we don’t look at who owns this, who owns this. We look at what are the skills we need to bring to the table in order to deliver the product that we need delivered, whether that’s for PBO or our clients.

Joey (11:22.806)
Yeah. The reason I actually asked about that, how long does it take is because, you know, and for the audience too, sometimes we’ll get people that just want it right away. They just want to comp right at that moment when they’re going to send the offer letter. And it really, these are things that take planning like thought ahead of time. Like these are things that, and that’s why you do have to plan ahead because it’s not something we can just, or that you should just, you know, immediately make a split second decision on.

Yeah, and that’s a really good point, Joey, because the thing that a lot of HR practitioners miss or HR professionals miss is we don’t reach out the phone and the phone and call Jennifer and say, hey, is this position even budgeted for? And if it’s not, and if it is, we’re going to offer X like, is that even in the hemisphere, right? Of what the market has changed or whatever that might look like. So

Joey (12:04.748)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That’s the constant conversation. And so for only having the one time a year, we should absolutely expect to be off target if we’re not checking every quarter, right? To kind of figure out every cadence, to do some KPI planning, et cetera, to figure out where we are plan and the variance to that.

Joey (12:25.431)
Yeah.

Joey (12:33.046)
Yeah, because it’s not just a number.

And to your point, that whole strategic planning process is really critical to mitigate that last minute, right? So if we’re having these conversations in our planning dialogues and there are trigger points in our workforce planning that say, okay, we’re hitting this milestone and that means we’re going to need this extra skillset, we’re all aligned from a finance and a strategic and person.

Joey (12:57.453)
I’m here.

planning point of view. If we don’t do that planning, then we’re in fire drill mode and, you know, finance is saying, wait, what, what’s happening? And HR is saying, well, I’m hiring this person. And so that causes an incredible amount of inefficiency in an organization. As we all know, we’ve all seen it. We’ve been in clients where that’s the issue. And so, you know, the, the subject of today was really plan, plan, plan. We understand that plans change, but if you all are in agreement with the philosophy and the objective of the plan, if things change, if market conditions change, it’s easier to come back together to the table to say, regroup, we’re here, we wanted to be there, but what do we need in this moment? And we’re all on the same page.

Joey (13:53.583)
Yeah, yeah, and it also affects the company culture too. Like there is a culture aspect to it and making things fair and, you know, equitable and as much as, you know, we wouldn’t want anybody to be talking about their compensation and the numbers and stuff like that. They do. And so you have to be prepared, you have to plan for that too. that, and there is just more that goes into that than, you know.

Yeah.

It also exhausts the team to your point about culture, right? So if we don’t have a plan in place and we’re not aligned as much as we can be in the beginning, what happens is the allocation of resources becomes exhausted. So time is our largest resource for most people. And so when we impact other, our time and not an intentional or hyper-focused way, we begin to exhaust our teams in a way that we didn’t intend to, but it’s because we didn’t understand, we didn’t have clarity to begin with. And so we, and we didn’t agree or align to begin with. And so vagueness crushes our energy level in epic ways. So I think that is the other piece is resource investment is one piece in terms of a plan, but resource allocation and how we’re mindful and intentional about how we’re allocating time, effort and energy from an allocation perspective is really a critical piece too to not burden people out.

Joey (15:20.014)
As the year wraps up, what should companies do to set themselves up for success? I guess I just go around the table if you want to name one quick thing that companies can do to line themselves up for success.

So from a CFO perspective, definitely making sure you’re doing cash planning and having a cash forecast to make sure you’re able to cash flow your budget and any workforce planning you’re looking at. So that is one of the most critical resources to have.

Joey (15:45.354)
Okay.

Joey (16:00.025)
Cool, and Fran?

So we have done a really cool job in our planning process this year of benchmarking and really understanding what are those key performance indicators that give us a grade of an A plus and how do we get to that A plus. And so that’s been really great for all of us to look at those metrics. For Jennifer, she’s looking at cash flow.

She’s driving margin and utilization and Nicole is looking at utilization and product development. And so it’s been really cool for us to have like these really great measurement tools that we’re going to stand up within the organization and then share it with the whole team so that we can all be on the same page. We’re gonna put it on our team, our intranet and we’re gonna all have our score kind of like.

Joey (16:52.386)
Mm-hmm.

You know, we’re getting an A today, we’re getting a B tomorrow, so it’s going to be really fun for all of us so we can start to drive towards the same, to the same goals.

Joey (17:01.11)
I start the intercom.

Yeah, so I think for me to set yourself up for success is I do think it’s important to look backwards for a moment to understand what worked and what didn’t, right? So we don’t repeat that same mistake. I wouldn’t spend a lot of energy on that because we’re not going that way, right? We’re going forward. So it’s more around what did we take away that’s meaningful and intentional that we can apply historical that’s going to be relevant?

Joey (17:14.572)
Mm, well done.

going forward. And I think the other part for me is really understanding your talent and being realistic about what is their capability and their capacity so that we understand what’s possible and what’s not. think that’s the realistic conversation that most folks don’t necessarily have. And I think that there are obviously a lot of things impacting the workforce right now, whether it’s AI or reductions in staff or whatever the modifications are looking. And so there’s a thousand ways to resource work. And so being innovative around and creative around how you can resource a body of work, I think I would encourage teams to think outside the box.

Joey (18:14.478)
And I’m gonna name one. I would do end of the year audits and specifically I would do a vacation time PTO audit Because I will promise you that you will find something that probably needs to be corrected and I really do think that it’ll success set you up for success

That is fair. And your employees appreciate it unless you’re taking it away.

Yeah.

Joey (18:39.534)
Exactly. I do think it’s important just to make sure that everyone’s receiving the right because mistakes happen throughout the year. So that’s a good one that I think can always be beneficial. So you know what? Last question for each of you for today. What’s your best advice for business owners at the start of the new year for 2026?

It’s a really good question, Joey. So I would say continue looking at your strategic plan and your forecast. As Nicole mentioned, things are constantly changing. So we can’t just prepare a budget one time or a strategic plan one time. We are constantly looking at that at PBO and at our clients. We’re looking at that on a monthly, sometimes a quarterly basis, but ideally monthly to see where did we end up?

What do we need to modify to achieve our strategic goal for this year and then the next the two following years and beyond?

Joey (19:53.336)
Awesome. And Fran?

Really, aligning on our key initiatives for this year and the following years and making sure we’re all on the same page and moving in the same direction so that we have clarity of resources, both people and money and time, and staying true to our values in that process.

Joey (20:22.176)
…and Nicole.

So I think for the clients that we’ve been supporting and then even for the PBO team, I think the gift of sight for us to have visibility into like like Bram was saying, benchmarks and is that what we’re supposed to be doing? Is that what good looks like? If you are a CEO and you don’t have visibility or understanding of what good looks like on your financials from a cashflow perspective, to for your talent teams, what leadership is supposed to look like. That all impacts resource investment and allocation. So I would say if you don’t have visibility or a good understanding of what good looks like, I would highly recommend you surround yourself with the resources who can help shape that for you, especially if you’re a CEO and especially if you’re a new CEO.

Joey (21:18.7)
Yeah, I like that. And I’m going to say a couple. would just say the new year is always a great time to set new goals for the year, business-wise. And then also, update your employee handbook. I think that’s always a good thing to do in January.

Nice plug.

Joey (21:38.734)
Yeah. So Fran, you know, for the audience, if they were just gonna, you know, three takeaways, like the key takeaways of this conversation, what would you say are those, you know, kind of top three things that…

So, you know, I think that the strategic planning process is a really important one. It is really critical to take a pause and say what went really great this year and what are the opportunities where we can learn and grow, and then tackle those opportunities. And those are likely going to be in the areas of your, you know, resource allocation, again, your time and understanding if we need to make improvements, what the investment is there and how we capitalize and make sure we can support that investment.

Joey (22:38.382)
Yeah, and I think I should mention that every year PBO has like a checklist that comes out, you know, for an end of the year checklist. And that’s a really good thing to take advantage of. It’s a free resource that we offer. So check out our website for that. And I guess any other closing thoughts, Jennifer or Nicole?

I just want to say I’m looking forward to 2026. I hope it’s very predictable, stable year. It’s been a ride. It’s been fun. It’s been nice to be in the foxhole with Fran and Jennifer and Mike Ford, wherever you are out there in the world. And so it’s been a ride, but it’s been such a learning curve and it’s been a pleasure.

Yes, same here.

Joey (23:04.525)
Never.

Joey (23:26.99)
Jennifer?

I agree that 2025 was very challenging. I felt very challenged and continue to feel challenged this year. So I am looking forward to 2026 as well. And I feel like all the work we’ve done this year is going to really start paying off in 2026.

Joey (23:48.908)
Yeah, I think so too. I have a prediction and I think it’s that 2026 is going to be a really great year. that’s my, it might be a little early to say that, but that’s my prediction.

I absolutely agree with you. I’m already starting to feel it. You know, I’m out in the marketplace a lot and you can already feel that things are moving forward where they were a little stalled for a bit. It’s starting to move. So 2026, we’re going to hit the ground running.

Joey (24:14.478)
Agree, but you know we still have a month and a half left of 2025, so let’s try to you know make it as successful as we can. So Fran, Jennifer, Nicole, thank you for the great conversation today and to learn more about how PBO helps businesses align finance and human capital to drive growth, please visit our website at pboadvisory.com and follow us on LinkedIn. See you next time. Thank you.

Thanks, Joey.

Thanks for watching!

PBO Perspectives in Business, Finance & HR

Planning for 2026 | Why People and Money Must Be Aligned

Ready to build a successful 2026? To learn more about how PBO helps businesses align finance and human capital to drive growth, visit our website or contact us today.

Articles & Podcast on Year-End Planning

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PBO Perspectives in Business, Finance & HR

Planning for 2026 | Why People and Money Must Be Aligned

Q: What is the “real competitive advantage” for a business, and why is it so important?

Q: How should leaders determine if they have the “right people in the right seats”?

Q: What does the practical integration of finance and HR look like during workforce planning?

Q: As companies head into 2026, what are the key pieces of advice from the leadership team?

Ready to build a successful 2026? To learn more about how PBO helps businesses align finance and human capital to drive growth, visit our website or contact us today.

Articles & Podcast on Year-End Planning

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