Total Rewards
Building It Together
ft. Lisbeth Fletcher

Chapter 1: A Total Rewards Strategy No One Owns

Fran: Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, whatever time of day you are listening to this podcast. In most organizations, we see the finance team drive and build the compensation models, and HR teams end up administering them. The result is that the program lives in two different places and serves neither. The financial model makes assumptions about behavior that finance was never trained to evaluate, and the people side of the house carries assumptions about costs that HR was never asked to validate. Then operations is impacted by those people and money decisions. So every part of the organization ends up with a total rewards strategy that no one really owns.

Fran: Today we are going to talk about what changes when CFOs, CPOs, and operations teams build total rewards together from the start, with the CEO setting the strategic framework. I'm Fran San Diego with PBO Advisory Group, and this is PBO Perspectives in Business, Finance & HR. I am joined today by our own Kristy Facchini, our Consulting CFO, and Nicole Devine, one of our Consulting Chief People Officers.

Fran: We also have a very special guest, Lisbeth Fletcher with Feeding San Diego, which was named the 2026 Nonprofit of the Year by the San Diego Business Chamber in July 2026. Feeding San Diego does essential hunger relief and food rescue work. Lisbeth serves as Director of Staff Operations and Administration, where she leverages more than 15 years of leadership experience in project management, people operations, and organizational effectiveness. In her role, she supports the CEO while driving operational excellence through process improvement, staff training and development, policy guidance, and strategic problem solving for Feeding San Diego's nearly 100 employees. Lisbeth is a firm believer that food security is a fundamental human right, and she was drawn to Feeding San Diego to apply her professional expertise to a mission that strengthens communities and improves lives. Kristy, so happy to see you, and glad you're back.

Kristy: Thanks, Fran. Glad to be back. This is actually the harder conversation, one that many leadership teams work hard to get right, so I'm looking forward to jumping in.

Fran: Awesome. Nicole?

Nicole: Thank you. It's nice to be back, and I'm looking forward to this conversation, as always.

Fran: And Lisbeth, thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome.

Lisbeth: Thank you for having me. I've had the pleasure of partnering with the PBO team to strengthen our whole total rewards program, and it has been a great benefit to our people and our staff. So thank you.

Chapter 2: Where Total Rewards Conversations Lose Their Anchor

Fran: I want to start with blind spots. Kristy, are there areas where you see the total rewards conversation having blind spots?

Kristy: Absolutely. Oftentimes we start at the wrong end of the conversation. The first conversation we should have is: what behaviors are we paying for, and what do we expect to see as a result? Does that align with the business operating result we are looking for, and does it align with our strategy? Once we align the behavior and the expected return, we can stress test the financial model using multiple financial scenarios. Both sides need to work together, meaning the finance team, the HR team, and executive management, so that everyone is aligned on the expectation and we can optimize for both cost control and engagement.

Fran: Nicole, where do you see blind spots when we are tackling a total rewards program?

Nicole: Similar to Kristy, what we typically see, especially in the small to mid-sized market where the infrastructure or strategy may not be as built out as in larger markets, is that decisions are anchored to nothing. There is no data supporting them, and no strategy codified around the behaviors or the strategic direction the CEO is envisioning. Sometimes HR does not yet have the skill set to speak to what those behaviors need to look like. The financial numbers are often the easier part. What is harder is tying them to something and rooting them in a strategy, so that we have something to measure against. It becomes a conversation about behavior and numbers that is not anchored to a map or a strategy.

Fran: Kristy, can you give an example of a total rewards program at a client and how it played out?

Kristy: Sometimes I hear, "Yes, but they expect to receive this check." That's great. Let's align that payment with something that benefits the company. I have a client whose employees are used to receiving bonuses, and it is almost a given. But the bonus was tied to the wrong numbers. It was not tied to profitability. Revenue is a big driver for this company, but revenue can be pursued in ways that are not profitable. Revenue should be one component of the bonus structure, but you also need to look at margin and what each division or location contributes to the overhead of the organization.

Fran: So true. And it gives us the opportunity as leaders to educate our team members on our business models, so they think not just about top line revenue, but about margin and the other inputs that matter for company goals. Nicole, do you have an example from a client?

Nicole: We work a lot in the professional services industry, with a variety of firms. Irrespective of the deliverable, when billable hours come into play, I have worked with many companies whose compensation drives behavior that looks more like an individual contributor than a partner. People focus on their own book of business, and there is no continuity across the firm that builds generational wealth for the firm itself, with buyouts and everything connected to that bigger strategy. It creates a short term gain, because it drives revenue when we are hitting numbers and realization rates look good. What it does not do is build an ownership mindset firm-wide. That skill set has not been established, and we end up compensating for partners who can hit numbers rather than people who can drive enterprise value.

Nicole: I have seen compensation built around the wrong behavior unintentionally, and it happens in the small to mid-sized market because that is how firms grow organically. They did not yet have the luxury of operating at a firm level. So there has to be a constant pulse on what makes sense now and what we need in the future, and an ongoing conversation around it. And the modeling matters. How many firms have we seen model compensation in a way the balance sheet cannot sustain for years to come?

Chapter 3: How Feeding San Diego Defines Success

Fran: That makes a lot of sense. Lisbeth, you have a powerful culture in your organization. Tell us how success looks from your total rewards program.

Lisbeth: At Feeding San Diego, we are a mission-driven nonprofit, so we are constantly balancing responsible stewardship of our donor resources with creating an employee experience that attracts and retains talented people, while also meeting our mission of ending hunger in our community. We think about success across the organization. Each employee has individual goals tied to their role, and we are also measured by our organizational outcomes. That requires collaboration across our programs, finance, development, and operations teams, all working toward a common goal to end hunger in San Diego County. You cannot distribute millions of meals without that kind of collaboration.

Lisbeth: So a lot of our rewards are designed to incentivize that collaboration and intentional work. At our all staff meetings, we recognize cross-functional teams and reward that effort. We also offer a recognition program called Bonusly, which was a recommendation from PBO. It allows employees to recognize each other, and that peer-to-peer recognition has been amazing. As an organization, we have seen an increase in engagement across our staff. I'm getting a little ahead of myself on culture, which we will talk about later, but we want to recognize the positive contributions people make and reward them accordingly.

Fran: I love the Bonusly program. We use it at a lot of our clients, because total rewards programs often have team goals, company goals, and individual goals, and that cross-collaboration is amazing. Peer-to-peer programs drive culture, and culture drives performance. The examples you have shared make a big difference in a compensation and rewards program, in culture, and ultimately in the performance of the team.

Chapter 4: Starting With the CEO's Single Business Outcome

Fran: I want to talk about the design discipline of a rewards program in the context of engagement and the behaviors we are trying to incentivize. Kristy, what are some of the behaviors we look for as we start to design these programs?

Kristy: I always think the first place to look is the CEO chair, to understand the single most important thing the business is striving to achieve. The CEO has a single business outcome, and if the rest of the executive team is not aligned with it, the plan will not work. So focus on the most important single output you want the business to accomplish, and model around that.

Fran: Nicole, how do you then see that actualized on the people side of the house?

Nicole: On the people side, we are tasked with the messaging and how it lands. We can all be in the boardroom or the executive room where this is designed, and hopefully everyone is aligned in that room. When the people team is engaged at the conversational level and managing the messaging, sometimes benefits have to look different. To Lisbeth's point, compensation is one piece. It is one data point. Many programs make up the total rewards investment in employees to drive outcomes, and bonuses are a good example of that.

Nicole: It is human resources' job to understand the framework from the CEO and the financial modeling so we can speak intelligently to the business impact and why certain decisions are or are not being made, and to coach managers on their talking points. Every CEO also has a different comfort level with transparency around total rewards, compensation, and benefits decisions. So part of it is making the messaging authentic and making sure people are aligned to it.

Nicole: The other piece, which HR in the small to mid-sized market does not always have the resources to do well, is total rewards storytelling. Most employees do not realize how much an employer invests in them. Doing a better job of telling that story, working with the CFO and CEO on what the message should convey and accomplish, is imperative. We often lean on marketing, who does storytelling well. Anyone with the right skill set should be in that room.

Chapter 5: Clarity Before the Comp Plan

Fran: To both of your points, the CEO needs to define exactly what we are trying to accomplish, whether that is feeding a million people in a year, in Feeding San Diego's case, or top line revenue, EBITDA, or gross margin. That gives each person the clarity to tell the story: this is the reward and compensation we are putting together because this is what we want from you, what we expect from you, and why we are all rowing in the same direction.

Fran: I have seen clients assign the CPO or the CFO to come up with a total compensation plan without guidance on the big strategic goal. One of our own team members once sent me a compensation plan for an executive, and I said, "I'm missing a piece of information. What are we trying to accomplish?"

Nicole: Some context here, people.

Fran: And the truth was, we did not yet have clarity on what we were trying to accomplish, which made it difficult to create the appropriate total rewards package. That needs to be the first and clearest message, and it comes from the CEO and the leadership team as a whole.

Chapter 6: Four Operating Principles for Compensation Decisions

Fran: We approach compensation decisions with four operating principles. We look for impact and reward outcomes. We design for fairness, growth, and ease of administration, because we do not want a plan so complicated that people cannot calculate or understand it. And we create shareholder value by driving success with the customer or client, whatever that looks like. Compensation decisions pass through those considerations with the defined goals in place, and then we design the rewards structure. If we are clear as leaders on those principles and on our one, two, and three year goals, the CFO and CPO can go to work as a team to design the program. Kristy, what other criteria do you look at when designing a program in alignment with the CEO and CPO?

Kristy: Fran, the four principles you just identified are exactly the strategic frame a CFO needs to build a model against. If I have the criteria for evaluating a proposed structure and delivering against the outcomes the CEO cares about, that is my objective. Having a clear definition is great, because without it, the cost shows up in time, trust, and execution focus.

Fran: Nicole, what are some of the ways you create coherence in a program?

Nicole: Beyond the four pillars you described, the first conversation we typically have is how transparent the messaging should be, and at what level. The answer is different for every client. Not everyone can afford to do everything they want to do, so it comes down to being as equitable as possible. Every strategy is different, and the impact always depends on the business model.

Nicole: The other important lens is data. Are we losing talent? Are we competitive in the market? Can we attract and retain talent and keep people engaged? Chief people officers and HR teams need to bring a pulse on the market to the table. They should know the talent market. Often when I work with HR professionals, they are not looking externally to understand the business model or industry they are in. It is a supply and demand market, and you need to understand it that way.

Chapter 7: Talking With Boards About Return on Talent Investment

Fran: That is a good segue, because we have many nonprofit clients, and our teams are often asked to present to boards. Boards often ask about compensation. As professionals, we need to address the market, but what boards are really asking is whether we are getting a return on our talent investment. They want to know we are in a competitive range, and they also want to understand the ROI. Those are two different conversations, and both are important. The return conversation uses a different set of metrics than "here is what the market will bear." Lisbeth, your board likely evaluates compensation. How do you approach that conversation with respect to your mission objectives?

Lisbeth: At nonprofits, we have a unique responsibility, because every dollar we spend ultimately supports our mission, and the mission is the focus. Our board wants to know we are responsible stewards of our resources while making sure we have the right talent and are recruiting well. With that in mind, the board lets our leadership team determine the right approach. They are very much aware, and they encourage and empower our leadership team to create an environment where people feel valued and respected. When we roll out a new benefit or look at compensation across the organization, they are aware of it, and they leave those decisions in the hands of leadership.

Fran: That makes a lot of sense. You know your people and what employees need to feel supported, and I love that your board entrusts you with those decisions.

Chapter 8: Designing Rewards for a Multi-Generational Workforce

Fran: Let's talk about designing rewards programs for a multi-generational workforce. We have all had interesting conversations about generational differences and the perceived value of a rewards package depending on your stage of life. Nicole, can you talk about that?

Nicole: I could talk for weeks about that. Uncanny timing, I was listening to a different podcast this morning about how, for the first time, we have seven generations alive across the globe. When we were kids, your parents went to work, and that was a physical place. Now work means opening your laptop, and that can be anywhere in the world. The younger generations come in with a digital-first mindset. They have only ever lived in a digitized world, so what they value for work-life balance looks different, and so does their willingness to put in 80 hours. The entire system is being modified in real time, and accommodating all of those mindsets takes real intention.

Nicole: The best approach is to remember that people value many of the same things. They want to be appreciated and feel valuable at work. The benefit and offering just look different. If you are sunsetting your career, you may not care as much about learning and development or coaching. If you are just starting your career, being in the office may make the most sense because you want collaboration, energy, mentorship, and learning opportunities. So understand your workforce and what they value, and build a flexible program. Some newer companies offer wellness stipends. You can buy a mattress or see an acupuncturist, whatever that means for you. It means navigating "I want a mental health day" alongside an older generation that may be surprised by that. Package it with flexibility for each generation, stay in tune with up and coming generations, and bring those perspectives into the room instead of making assumptions.

Fran: We see it at clients all the time. A client that requires employees in the office five days a week may not attract some younger talent, because that is a model they have not experienced in their professional life, so they will make a different choice. It really comes down to simple things: understanding our workforce, how to get the most out of them, and what matters most to them.

Nicole: And getting them to perform where we need them to. We have a small office that serves as our hub. There is a big difference in your energy level when you are in there. You feel great, and when you leave, you are tired, versus being at home. That flexibility is something you cannot put a dollar figure on.

Fran: When we went back to working together in person, I was cautious to ask whether we wanted to meet one day a week, because I did not want to stress people out. But I find a lot of creativity in in-person collaboration, and everyone was excited to do it. There is value in being together, breaking bread, laughing, and innovating together. It will vary by what a team is working on and flex up and down over time. If we keep non-compensation benefits fluid and stay in conversation with our people, we will better understand what they value, because those things change over time too.

Chapter 9: Connecting Employees to the Mission

Fran: Lisbeth, as a nonprofit, how do you approach what gives your employees joy, or incentives outside of their overall compensation?

Lisbeth: At Feeding San Diego, we encourage employees in every department, especially those who are not community facing, to volunteer at a food distribution. Join a mobile pantry, help with food sorting, participate in organization-wide events, listen to the community, and engage with the people we serve. That builds a lot of connection. Our programs team is out in the community all the time, while some of us are primarily in the office, so finding those moments puts things in perspective and builds connection across teams and a personal connection to our mission.

Lisbeth: We also have an inclusive workplace with different ages, backgrounds, and life experiences, so we provide benefits that support employees at different stages of life, whether they are nearing retirement or going back to school, where we offer tuition reimbursement. Our EAP is a great program for all of our employees. We try to think holistically about everything we can offer.

Fran: That is really awesome, because you are meeting people where they are. There is a reason they work for you. Connecting them to the mission is a huge piece that costs almost nothing, and it keeps that sticky factor. It is why they are there.

Chapter 10: Benefits, Well-Being, and Rising Healthcare Costs

Fran: Let's talk about benefits and well-being. Lisbeth mentioned EAP and tuition programs, and that is where we see the most variability across clients. Nicole, how do we approach benefits and well-being?

Nicole: One of the biggest things our clients are navigating, in large and small markets alike, is the rapidly rising cost of healthcare. We work with CFOs through the modeling and consider how we might need to change our approach. Compensation is one data point among many, and sometimes even CEOs focus only on the compensation number and the benefits number, which is where conversations get stuck. So we step back and go through the four components again: what are we trying to accomplish, and how else can we creatively get there?

Nicole: We will need to be creative with health benefits going forward, and we are seeing a lot of creativity in that space. Organizations are looking at self-insured plans and a variety of other plan designs, and I expect the insurance industry will modify its offerings to make them more affordable, whether through different pharmacy benefits or otherwise. For us, it comes back to understanding your people, as Lisbeth said. Meet them where they are and learn what they value. There is an assumption that it is only about money, but currency comes in many different forms. Money is one data point. Know your people, meet them where they are, and keep in mind what you can afford. It looks different at every client.

Fran: Kristy, the financial implications of benefits and well-being programs are significant right now. How are you modeling them to understand what employers can do to support their rewards programs?

Kristy: Costs are rising quickly, and it is something employees need to be aware of too, because it is a cost they have to consider. Understanding your workforce is the starting place. When you model benefit costs, do not base the model on an average. Account for the totality of your existing workforce, where your future recruits will come from, and where they will slot into your organization, so you have a model you can use to evaluate the business cost of benefits.

Kristy: There are also benefits with no cost that companies should consider. Employees who value training may appreciate exposure just as much. You can create cross-training opportunities with a different department for employees who want to do more, which helps the business as well, or invite them to sit in on a board meeting to create a sense of belonging. Benefits connect people back to the company. Looking at no-cost alternatives and modeling your true and future costs is where I sit from a CFO perspective.

Fran: I love that. The Big Four do such a good job of training their team members through mentor programs where you learn from a seasoned professional. Those things cost little, and they help people connect and build a stronger, more cohesive company. It impacts culture too. We talked a lot about culture in episode one, and I know from reading many books that people will stay with a company because they love the culture, even when they could earn more elsewhere.

Chapter 11: Culture and Employee-Led Committees

Fran: Lisbeth, talk about your culture and what it looks like for the Feeding San Diego team.

Lisbeth: As you were all talking, I was thinking about how employee focused and employee led some of our work is. We have several employee-led committees, which build collaboration and give employees a say in reviewing, adjusting, or proposing policies. Our culture is built around collaboration and openness. We want transparency across all teams, from leadership to direct reports, up, down, and sideways. Culture is very important to us. We celebrate milestones, recognize accomplishments, provide professional development opportunities, and engage with our staff by meeting them where they are.

Fran: I love that. We have committees too, including a social committee and a philanthropy committee that drives our community involvement. Employees decide how they want to engage, and we get cohesive representation from team members across the company. Nicole, talk about company culture and how it shapes the total rewards viewpoint.

Nicole: We talk about culture in probably every podcast we do because it is so critical. It is emblematic of every business decision made within a company, and it rests on the behaviors employees see modeled by the leadership team over and over again. When we make decisions about benefits, total rewards, or anything else, they need to align with the organization's values. Otherwise they feel inauthentic and disconnected from what we are trying to accomplish.

Nicole: What I love about what Lisbeth shared is that their culture connects to the mission, and they connect benefits to that. Helping employees connect those dots through business decisions shows that the organization truly values mission work, giving back to the community, and being involved in solving hunger. Threading that story in many ways, whether it costs something or nothing, resonates with employees at every level. It shapes how they understand their value within the organization, and it speaks louder to employees than any spreadsheet in the executive room.

Chapter 12: Communicating a Total Rewards Program

Fran: So true. We have talked about program design and the components of a solid total rewards program that impacts culture. Everything we do impacts culture. The next most important consideration is communicating these programs and connecting the dots. Nicole, talk about communicating a total rewards program and rolling it out to the organization.

Nicole: We typically start by asking employees. We survey them, meet with them one on one, and do a bit of a roadshow to understand what they value, what they loved about last year's benefits, what they want more of, what they could do with less of, and where they want real input and influence in the design. I often tell CEOs and executive teams that employees will tell us if we ask.

Fran: We just have to ask, right?

Nicole: I promise you, they will have opinions. We want to hear from the collective, not just the loudest voice in the room, and balance that with the reality that it is not an open checkbook. We have limited resources to balance. So communication means involving employees so they have influence on some decisions, gathering feedback, and keeping them in the conversation up front, with a measured expectation that it all feeds a bigger conversation about what the company can afford and where to prioritize investment.

Nicole: The cascading communication should then follow a compensation philosophy and the level of transparency that the culture and leadership team are comfortable with. We use roundtables and town halls, depending on the size of the group, the culture, and how they normally communicate. Smaller organizations should leverage subject matter experts such as their benefits brokers. Kristy and I have worked together with quite a few clients, and she once raised a great point in a previous webinar or podcast. Many CPA firms have wealth management attached, so why not connect employees to that program so they can learn to budget and feel good about their investments? When people feel their money is working for them and they are on the right track, it takes pressure off the compensation conversation. There are creative ways to communicate these things and tie the dots together.

Fran: Kristy, as a finance leader you are often the one communicating the dollars and cents. What approaches do you use when talking about the total rewards of a compensation package?

Kristy: Communication is so important. It creates transparency and connectedness within an organization, and I cannot overstate it. With a total rewards program, it starts at the beginning. Make sure employees understand what they are receiving and the value of it. That improves retention and engagement, and your cost of replacing employees goes down significantly, so it directly impacts your bottom line.

Kristy: After onboarding, communication should continue. Highlight a benefit of the week or a wellness program to keep people engaged. We talked in a different episode about incentive compensation and creating visibility. How much are employees earning over the period? That should not be a secret calculation that happens at year end before a check appears. Employees should be engaged and informed throughout the process, which is really what total rewards communication is about.

Fran: So true, and it ties back to the behaviors we are all rowing toward. We want a common language and an ongoing "where are we now" conversation, not a one and done. I also love the reminder about benefits people may not use. So many of our clients have excellent 401(k) plans with matching, and people get busy, mean to enroll, and never get to it, leaving money on the table. Those reminders are something we should keep doing. Lisbeth, what approaches do you take to communication in the context of value creation for your employees?

Lisbeth: Communication is one of the biggest parts of my job. If employees do not understand their benefits, there is little value in having them. We have great offerings, and I want people to know about them. So for us, it is constant communication. We are currently working on finding the right channels, the right content, and the right cadence. We send emails, hold quarterly staff meetings, and post on our intranet. We host lunch and learns with experts. For our 401(k), representatives from Principal meet with staff and educate everyone from those who have never had a 401(k) to those who want more strategic investment planning. We also brought in a husband and wife duo who have been amazing at helping people understand their credit scores and how that flows into future decisions, like preparing to buy a home.

Lisbeth: We are in open enrollment right now. We held an in-person session that was also available virtually, carriers came in to meet with staff, and our broker is holding one-on-one appointments for personalized guidance. For one topic, we serve it up in different formats so employees feel comfortable asking questions and can engage in the way that works for them. It has been great to learn how everyone approaches it.

Lisbeth: I also created a benefits summary in conjunction with Kristin from PBO. Shout out to Kristin. It lists all of our benefits, time off, and perks in one place. I review it with every new hire during onboarding, and I recently shared it with the entire organization, because employees see their paycheck and maybe their 401(k) contribution, but not the full scope of what is available to them. It was very eye-opening for the staff.

Lisbeth: For leadership to stay on top of what our employees need, we conduct an organizational health survey every year and develop action plans from it. At our quarterly staff meetings, we share: this is what you told us in the survey, here is our action plan, and here is our progress, because we want to be held accountable. Reporting back lets employees know we heard them and shows how we are making changes. That has been very engaging for our staff.

Fran: One thing I have learned is that you cannot overcommunicate. I love the total rewards summary you created for every new hire. It is a beautiful tool people can reference throughout their journey as an employee.

Chapter 13: Final Takeaways

Fran: We have talked for almost an hour, so I want to wrap up with the most important takeaway each of you would like to share about a total rewards program. We will start with you, Kristy.

Kristy: I would leave it with making sure we are asking the right questions that generate the right discussions, starting with: what return are we getting from our labor investments? We should not only talk about what we are paying or how we are benchmarking. Focus on the return on your labor investment. If we answer that question with rigor, the conversation is heading in the right direction, and the business will benefit.

Fran: Excellent. Nicole?

Nicole: We have all touched on communication quite a bit, and that piece is critical. We have to connect the dots at the employee level and not assume people understand the content or the impact. Something as small as a plan no longer covering someone's doctor is significant for some people. So stay connected and keep a pulse on it. And as we said at the start, have the right people in the room so the approach is integrated. If only one side is in the room, we are not approaching it holistically. Identify the right stakeholders and start off on the right foot.

Fran: And Lisbeth?

Lisbeth: For me, the biggest takeaway is that total rewards is really about trust. Employees want to know their organization is investing in them as people, not just as workers. When leaders communicate openly and connect those investments back to the organization's mission, employees feel valued. At Feeding San Diego, our mission is to end hunger, and that mission starts by taking care of the people who make that work possible every day. We invest in our employees, and in turn they can better serve our community. That is a win for everyone.

Closing

Fran: A big thank you to Nicole Devine, Kristy Facchini, and a really big thank you to our guest, Lisbeth Fletcher. You have shed a lot of light for those of us in the for-profit world on how to value our employees and serve a mission. Feeding San Diego believes that dignity, collaboration, and community are at the heart of their work, and they bring that to their employees as well. We are honored to serve Feeding San Diego as one of our clients. If you want to get involved, visit feedingsandiego.org. It is an amazing organization, and we have done a food packing event there ourselves. Thank you all for listening to our conversation on total rewards. You can find links and resources in the show notes, and visit pboadvisory.com or feedingsandiego.org to learn more. We will see you in the next series. Have a great day.